For many Elder Scrolls fans, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim would have been their first exposure to the franchise, and with the release of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered, they’re now getting their second taste of what Bethesda has cooked up. Naturally, this has led to comparisons being drawn between the two titles and debates raging.

So far, Oblivion fans have found they prefer the remaster’s magic system and leveling features, said they don’t miss smithing, but they do prefer Skyrim’s lockpicking. The discussions have gotten so brutal at points, that Oblivion fans have called on the community to stop dunking on Skyrim. That hasn’t stopped them, though.

Over the past few hours, a new debate has kicked up, with players convinced that “Oblivion’s cities feel so much more real than in Skyrim.”

Oblivion Remastered Players Feel That The Game’s Cities Are Far Better Than Skyrim’s

This new debate, started on the Oblivion subreddit by Saltypeppermint101, quickly gained over 350 comments. Many players were clearly keen to share their two cents on whether Skyrim’s cities really are worse than Oblivion’s, and the majority felt they were.

“The cities of Cyrodiil aren’t even particularly larger, excluding the Imperial City, of course,” said SaltyPeppermint. “But even the more bland ones, like Chorrol, feel like places you could actually live in. Meanwhile, the most friendly city in Skyrim, Whiterun, somehow pales in comparison. Maybe it’s recency bias with the Remaster, but despite Skyrim’s attempt at Game of Thrones-style grimdark realism, Cyrodiil just feels more like a place where people live their lives.” This was a sentiment others concurred with, and there were multiple reasons why.

BlueJayWC felt the reason for this was that Oblivion has a lot more NPCs in its cities than Skyrim, as each city was set to have an arena. Here, the NPCs were set to take the roles of fans, combatants, or gatekeepers. StankGangsta2 added, “In Oblivion, the NPCs will live out their day. Skyrim has daytime walking and standing spots and bedtime. I think the rumor talk and asking about the city also goes a long way.”

In Oblivion, the NPCs will live out their day. Skyrim has daytime walking and standing spots and bedtime.

Another reason fans cited for Oblivion’s more realistic cities was the structural layout. BilboniusBagginius said, “Taller buildings and walls obscure sightlines, so even if the city isn’t actually that big, it almost always looks like you’re in a city,” with Mercurycutie adding, “Having multiple inns within each city makes them feel much more realistic to me.”

Uncle480 added one final argument in Oblivion’s favour, saying, “I think one important distinction too is that Oblivion’s cities are meant to be all unified under one single emperor. All of the counts/countesses report to him, and the Imperial Legion has influence all across Cyrodil. Your bounty from one city’s crime carries over to the next.”

Of the 350+ comments in the thread, hardly any come to Skyrim’s defense. Sure, it’s in an Oblivion-centric subreddit, but I think it’s safe to chalk this up as an Elder Scrolls IV win.